Long Travel Suspension

by **TexTrail** » Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:18 pm

This is some what of a carry over from my intro post but I figured it would be better to continue it here.

I am interested in doing some research and fab of the long travel persuasion. I've been into offroading for about 12 years and do most of my own fab and wrenching. Our TB is 2wd but we've had it out on some trails and fire roads near ruidoso,nm. I'm tearing into the front end soon to replace the struts and add a lift.

I've got a few ideas about what could be done to improve the overall travel. Ive played around with front end some using a jack and cycling the suspension and what not, following the ball joint movement to see what happens.

Are there any companies that make aftermarket for lifted or lowered upper or lower control arms? I'd be interested in seeing what's already around to work with. I haven't been able to find any pictures of them yet if there are any.

I'll update here with any new findings or parts I come up with.

by **navigator** » Tue Oct 23, 2012 4:02 pm

Matt, I think there are some companies that support the lowered crowd. You will likely get more info from that group on GMTNation.com. It will be interesting to see what you come up with.

by **v7guy** » Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:15 pm

There were some upper arms available for the lowered crowd. I believe they had to be redesigned after several failures. I'm unsure if they're still around.

To the best of my knowledge, as of now, excluding the upper arm mentioned, there are no arms available other than stock. You would either be building them or having them made.
I can't see that they would be terribly difficult to make. But nobody has been motivated to do so yet.

by **TexTrail** » Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:45 pm

This all I could find after more searching. It looks really dinky and if this is that was failing I can see why. My idea is out of CNC cut and then welded flat plate maybe 3/16" thick with threaded inserts and use heims for all the mounts or maybe just the upper ball. You would have to ditch the upper ball for a specifically designed misalignment spacer that would sandwich the knuckle where the ball joint was... I really need get those uppers out and measured and drawn into a 3d model.

: ImageUploadedByTapatalk1351035263.000767.jpg (44.85 KiB) Viewed 16609 times

by **HARDTRAILZ** » Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:16 pm

Thats the only option. Interested to see what you can do.

by **v7guy** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:05 am

Matt, those are the ones.
I'm with Kyle, interested to see what you come up with.

by **TexTrail** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:17 pm

I drew this up at lunch. This is a rough version of what I had in mind to replace the ball joint. I'm still mulling upper control design but I've got a few different ideas some are crude but sturdy and easy to fab others would look better but be more work and design intensive. As I get my ideas drawn up I'll continue to post them and if anybody else is motivated feel free to take them and execute them or call them dumb and tell me to play in traffic. I hope to pick one and build a prototype soon.

: ImageUploadedByTapatalk1351109822.634268.jpg (11.59 KiB) Viewed 16569 times

by **v7guy** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:37 am

That would probably work, but couldn't you just use a balljoint that's pressed/bolted into the arm? A heim/solid bearing would work... I use them everywhere in my firebird, but for something that sees a lot of miles in a dusty, gritty, wet environment they tend to wear relatively quickly. I've heard conflicting reports on the heim boots effectiveness. Just a thought.

The arms themselves are pretty straightforward to build. Here's a toyota guy that built some...
http://www.toyotatruckclub.com/forum/sh ... Suspension

by **TexTrail** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:41 pm

I also use heims on my jeep. My current jeep is one I didn't build but I know the heims lasted there for 2-3 years under heavy abuse. I just wish they were 1-1/4" heims instead of 7/8x3/4 at least on the lower control arms.

I've got three different ideas for both the joint on the upper arm and the arm itself. That's just the first rough idea.

The guy on the toy website was using uni ball joints in his which is just a heim with no threaded shank. The other purpose of the heim would be for camber adjustment. What are the chances we are all running the same lift where a fixed joint location is best?

Also a press in ball joint like stock is weaker and has less range of motion than a heim or a johnny joint (one of the other ideas). However I have a lot more research and design to do before there is anything even worth trying.

One of my three ideas uses the factory ball joint in a way that it would would be in a centered/neutral position at ride height. Upper ball joints are always a common weak spot but less so if operated in the range of movement.

I try to stick to ideas I can accomplish mostly with the equipment I have in an effort to keep cost down. I will likely never sell or produce a complete control arm but I would be willing to sell the parts I make along with a list of other parts need. This machine will be my main focus for what I use to build with.

by **TexTrail** » Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:53 pm

I've been working away on the arm design and just about have it figured out. I need get a few parts sourced or made but nothing crazy. I found an autozone that had the stock upper CA and upper BJ in stock and went and measured them in the store.do I didn't want to wait to get started on the design until I took my wife's car apart. After looking and measuring some more on a 2wd there is no reason to keep the weird c shaped lower strut mount. I'm really looking at designing a new lower to match the upper with a coilover mount and making a bracket to bolt into the strut mount.

Now if we were to go for this for a 4wd you could cut the upper strut mount off the frame make the lower control arm big enough to mount the full length coil over in front of or behind the axle shaft and have a long travel version there if you can find high angle cv's. Have any of you spoken with the folks they RCV shafts for jeeps? The way they are designed makes them as strong or stronger when at full lock or extension in this case as they are in a straight line. What are the spline counts on the front diff and the unit bearings? If is common ( 27 or 30) they probably wouldn't have to do much as long as you can live with the axle disconnect.

Here is a link to custom IFS shafts. I know they are pricey but more travel and way stronger than stock.

http://www.rcvperformance.com/ifs-axle-form.aspx

by **v7guy** » Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:31 am

26 spline at the diff, 27 at the wheel bearing.
RCV is 2k last I looked.
You could probably just weld on a shock mount tab offset on a disk of metal and bolt it in the stock location. A new lower arm would just need to incorporate a mount for the coilover.

These are all options, and they've been discussed... some more seriously than others. $$$ is the big stopper though. Most guys don't want to spend 1k on coilovers, forget about 3-5 times that.

Still very interested to see what you come up with.

by **TexTrail** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:20 pm

I put a lift on my wife's car this weekend came out great. I made a front ready lift copy (I know the issues it presents but for $17 hard to beat for now) and z71 rear springs. I also upgraded the front struts to the ever popular bilstien hds.

I have started taking some angle measurements at the lifted ride height to establish a lower limit for the amount of lift the upper control arm will be made for. The break down will hopefully come out to:

2" lift the ball joint leaning slightly away.

3" ball joint neutral.

4" ball joint leaning slightly toward the vehicle.

I think 2 different versions will be good. The first will directly swap with a factory and use the ball joint. The second one that utilizes a heim and replaces the ball joint.

by **boog2006** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:30 pm

TexTrail wrote:I put a lift on my wife's car this weekend

And....!!!!!

by **Mudwheelin** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:43 pm

You cant tell us that without pictures lol

by **HARDTRAILZ** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:49 pm

I bled the brakelines on my s-10....

Figured I would toss out a random statement too.

by **NC_IslandRunner** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:39 pm

I drove over 2000 miles in my Impala a few weeks ago, the suspension felt great. Long-Travel-Suspension, I got it covered!:mrgreen:

by **boog2006** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:37 pm

NC_IslandRunner wrote:Long-Travel-Suspension, I got it covered!:mrgreen:

Impressive...

by **TexTrail** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:45 pm

Sorry I accidentally posted the first phrase. I went back to edit and got interrupted sorry about that I did finish the edit and here are the pics I have do far.

by **Mudwheelin** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:56 pm

What lift did you go with?

by **TexTrail** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:59 pm

I made front strut spacers out of 3" Dom and plasma cut plates I cut out at work with CNC machine. They are ready lift copies. I also put the bilstein hd front struts on. The rear is z71 springs and stock shocks for now until I decide what rear shocks. I'm thinking bilstein 5125s.

All in all the install went well. TB springs are so easy to compress compared to others I've done. The rear took about an hour with my 3 year old son "helping". And about 3 hours for the front including the fab work. I used to work in truck accessories so I no my way around an IFS with modified struts pretty well.

Offroad Trailblazers and Envoys