1.3" vs. 1.5" Wheelspacer Debate

[The Roadie]

1.3" thick spacers are evil and risky, and for such an invisible benefit.

[MrSmithsTB]

Yup, but they allowed me larger tires when money was tight. If I wouldn't have just gotten a few upgrades, I would have jumped on these and sold mine to a cruiser.

[foosh]

haha your funny Bot...

[Excell]

1.3" thick spacers are evil and risky, and for such an invisible benefit.

[Philberto]

1.3" thick spacers are evil and risky, and for such an invisible benefit.

Evil only because they come from the land of eBay, and risky only because you need more intelligence to install them. I'll show them to you when we meet up in 2 weeks... just promise not to wash them with holy water

[bgwolfpack]

1.3" thick spacers are evil and risky, and for such an invisible benefit.

Roadie you are going to have to explain yourself, again.

The rhetoric regarding spacers needs to stop. The only issues I've seen with the 1.3" spacers has been hearsay and propaganda mostly pushed by you and Fred's site. Propaganda will not be help those who are new and want to raise their truck. The avenue for some is the cheap route and yes they may end up 'Mall Cruisers' but that is the choice they make.

If Philberto goes on your trip and ends up breaking a spacer, then your stance will be correct. If he returns fine, without issue then more careful thought needs to be had by you.

You do not like the E-bay seller that's fine. Their are other sellers though, not just Fred.

Spacers are not a 'Master craft'. Over hyped and over priced does not make a better spacer and over blown, over bearing does not prove anything.

You are the 'Grandfather' of lifting this plate form. I salute you.
But, I believe you are wrong on this issue.

[Philberto]

For the sake of this forum, I recommend moving the debate on wheel spacers over to another area (offroad discussion?)

Maybe one of our illustrious mods would like to split this thread? And I'd like to also make sure that tempers don't flare up here. There is good merit in figuring out if the eBay spacers are a viable alternative or just an accident waiting to happen, but I don't want anybody to get too worked up about it.

[HARDTRAILZ]

If you are not going to have them fitted to on certain wheel, Fred's are not worth the extra money. The spacers are simple. The ebay sellers have proved themselves over and over. There is a reason more people run them than fred's. Fred has extra service, but for over double the price, not worth it.

If you are going to only run one set of wheels over the life of your vehicle or are willing to spend money on spacers more than once, then getting the spacer centric to your wheels may be worthwhile, but for someone like me that has 3 complete sets of rims, 2 with tires, and an additional spare on a 4 style rim, that doesn't work. I have 10,000 plus miles of running the ebay spacers and they have never loosened since the initial install. They look just as good as when installed, well if you clean the dirt off them.

I would love to see proof that the ebay spacers failed for a reason other than installer error.

[bgwolfpack]

For the sake of this forum, I recommend moving the debate on wheel spacers over to another area (offroad discussion?)

Maybe one of our illustrious mods would like to split this thread? And I'd like to also make sure that tempers don't flare up here. There is good merit in figuring out if the eBay spacers are a viable alternative or just an accident waiting to happen, but I don't want anybody to get too worked up about it.

Don't worry about someone getting upset, he won't.

This issue is one that needs to be resolved. It's the hint of danger about spacers breaking that needs to be addressed and not just preached about.

[Trail X]

I assume you guys haven't seen the thread on the OS where he broke 4 studs because he didn't grind his studs enough...

   TrailVoy Thread  



There's your risk.

[HARDTRAILZ]

I assume you guys haven't seen the thread on the OS where he broke 4 studs because he didn't grind his studs enough...

   TrailVoy Thread  



There's your risk.

Stupid installer fail, not a spacer fail. Show me a spacer that failed after properly being installed.....

[Trail X]

Exactly. That's a big risk. Companies take calculated risks every time they sell products. Products should be designed to minimize any potential risk to the consumer no matter if it's their own stupidity.

I agree that as long as you grind your studs enough, you should have nothing to worry about. However, the benefits of 0.2" difference in offset is minimal compared to the risk of a improper install.

[The Roadie]

Roadie you are going to have to explain yourself, again.

Gladly. The spacers are not in themselves risky or substandard or poorly machined (except for the symmetry part).

The Ebay vendor is of the highest caliber and can make them cheaper than Fred because he has a lot higher volume. Fred is a "boutique" vendor who can ship the same day if you're desperate. And who you can discuss the issues of getting the the center bore just right, and the hubcentric lip tall enough to fit in funny rims like I had to deal with. I needed Fred's service because I was trying to get the best possible hubcentric fit on one particular set of rims and I still had to machine a thousandth off the centerbore so I could get them off more easily with hot rotors because I had neglected the thermal expansion issue when I gave him the target dimension and tolerances.

The entire issue I have with thin spacers is the IIF (idiot installer factor). In this case we had an EXTREMELY unobservant owner who just held the spacers up by hand to see if he had ground the studs enough. He didn't snug them down and use a straightedge. He didn't install the wheel and then take it off and look for scratches. He failed to take them off for 400 miles and recheck the torque.

There are idiots, frugal folks, and folks who haven't the slightest clue WHY they need spacers for their bigger tires out there in the mall cruiser world who don't have garages. Don't have proper tools. Probably are trying to FILE their studs down to fit the spacers because they won't spend $30 for a Harbor Freight angle grinder.

Please don't think I consider any of you guys to be such goofs. The OS is chock full of idiots and noobs. Some of whom can be educated, and many are hopeless. I get ten PMs a day that would curl your hair, wanting free consulting that I can't offer. The vendor is in a very risky business, because ONE accident like the recent poster could have had, and even though he was innocent, his legal defense bills could have been huge. Same reason I think Mark is running a gigantic risk with his net worth by being in the discount lift business. First accident and he gets hauled into court by the survivors, and in his case he could even be on the hook for an installation issue because he participates in so many of them as a courtesy.

So the issue is whether 0.2" thinner spacer offers enough benefits to the vendor to be worth the risk (and expense) of an idiot installer. I don't see it offering a benefit to the user, although for the sophisticated user, they're going to do a proper grinding job. I carry a few studs on the trail, and if I had to offer some to a trail-mate who broke one or more, I wouldn't be prepared to grind it down on the trail. They'll have to carry pre-ground studs, or just limp home with some taken off other hubs.

Hope that helps explain my position. Given the way I support folks on the OS, I see a need to protect the idiots from themselves by making the products idiot-proof. That's all. If Fred offered a 1.3" spacer I'd try to talk him out of it, except he spends enough time on the phone to properly qualify the customers, in most cases. He's the "spacer nazi".

[MrSmithsTB]

I assume you guys haven't seen the thread on the OS where he broke 4 studs because he didn't grind his studs enough...

   TrailVoy Thread  



There's your risk.

Plain and simple. I'm not sure if anyone else received warning, but I had to find out by test fitting that the rear studs needed to be ground down. Fortunately, I actually pay attention to my work and noticed the spacing issue, cutting the studs off to make 1/4" of additional clearance. The quality of the spacers is unquestionable, but they aren't really as custom as we need for a simple bolt on. The sellers picked 1.3" because it is pretty much universal as an acceptable clearance. Even the front studs are fine. That guys broken studs can all be equated to user error, rushed work, lack of attention to detail, etc. Hell, if he checked it out before posting, we would not even have seen that thread because he would have been to embarrassed to post. What really gets me is that he read through my thread and commented, I think, when I installed my spacers and noted that the studs needed to be ground and checked for clearance. Who reads that and still fails to double check their work? All these spacers are is a less expensive alternative with the same ultimate ending. If I could have afforded Freds, I would have done that in the first place for the time tested peace of mind, but I have no regrets with these spacers. After 2500+ mile and a half dozen wheel removals, they are still as good as new.

[The Roadie]

I'm not sure if anyone else received warning, but I had to find out by test fitting that the rear studs needed to be ground down.

Mack sent me the following verbiage that he says goes out with each kit. Did you not get this? Or did he start doing this after you reported back to him that you needed grinding? Who WAS the first trailvoy owner to use WHEELADAPTERS@aol.com anyway?

WARNING!

FOR PROPER INSTALLATION, IT IS RECOMMENDED TO HAND TORQUE
LUG NUTS TO 95 FOOT POUNDS, OR
FAILURE CAN AND WILL OCCUR.

MAKE SURE THE VEHICLE’S STUDS ARE
NOT COMING THROUGH THE ADAPTER.
IT MUST BE A FLAT SURFACE. STUDS MAY
HAVE TO BE TRIMMED IN SOME CASES.

ALL STUDS ARE 12MM X 1.5 MAKE SURE TO
USE THE CORRECT LUGS FOR THE ADAPTER/SPACER WHEEL SIDE.
IF YOU RECEIVED A LUG PACKAGE,
MAKE SURE THEY ARE THE CORRECT SIZE AND USED TO INSTALL THE ADAPTERS
TO THE HUB.

[Philberto]

I agree. I must admit that I hadn't thought about grinding until I read your comment... or was it yours and janesy's comments?... about the clearance. Then again, I read that before I installed anything, checked with a straightedge after grinding, and then did some more grinding afterwards just to be safe.


FWIW, just cutting off the unthreaded parts of the studs with a sawzall or hacksaw until there's about a mm or 2 left before the threads worked much better for me. I like having a reference point for consistency, as well as a safety margin.

I would regard these wheel spacers as "suitable for hackers/tweakers" in that they do require more than just bolting on and drinking a beer in celebration. They're for people like us, who can read instructions before install, and who can remember to double-check everything. Speaking of which, I'm off to double-check fitment and retorque these puppies.

-edit: and I did receive that warning with my spacers, though I got them a few days to a week after MrSmith did.

-Phil

[janesy86]

I'm pretty sure I didn't get that warning in mine, only what they should be torqued to. He was also saying they were 1.5" but only does 1.3" IDK. I just made sure that the studs were not sticking past the spacer.

[MrSmithsTB]

Supposedly, every set get a "green sheet", or installation guidelines. I just got a box with a bag of nuts and some bubble wrapped spacers. I was already aware of the torque specs, and I installed the fronts first. So, I didn't notice the problem until I was halfway done. I did comment back to the seller, letting him know that I had to cut down my rear studs and it was recommended that he warn others of this. I'm assuming Mack either forgot my sheet or my comment prompted him to start providing them.

[HARDTRAILZ]

Not sure who was first, but I have had mine since February, I think, or soon there after. I recieved no instructions with mine. I was actually hoping the lugs and lugnuts would have switched to the larger 1/2 ton size, but they stayed the same. I installed them all on properly and used a straight edge to mark where to cut/grind. Then took the rears off to grind them. No problem unless you are completly stupid and therefore should not have spacers anyway. They are a piece that needs attention and if you cant or wont take the care to install them correctly and continue to check on them, I hope you wreck and die. Survival of the Fittest through ebay.

[MrSmithsTB]

And not only did I use a straight edge, but I also did a paper test and a thread test to make sure nothing was getting back there.