COMPLETED: 4.56's and lockers.

[Jon A]

Yea, it really sucks, as I would rather have something selectable, over a Lockrite up front. But if thats our only option I'll live with it.

Yeah, a locker up front you can't turn off is pretty hard core. Damn, a Truetrac or anything selectable would be a no-brainer but I'm going to have to think for a while about a Lockrite. Now that I know we don't have the same diff as the H3 but instead have the same as the S10, which has been around since the time of the dinosaurs, fat chance anybody is going to make anything else for it. If they haven't made something for that diff by now it's unlikely they ever will.

So, the lockrite or nothing.... I guess I don't really need to use 4WD on icy roads as much as I do...but when I'm stuck offroad with one front spinning, even though it doesn't happen as often, when it happens.... Hmm.

[The Roadie]

...but when I'm stuck offroad with one front spinning, even though it doesn't happen as often, when it happens.... Hmm.

You just use left foot braking to slow down the spinning and get some torque transfer. Or throw out a strap and get a tug from somebody who's already up the obstacle. Or winch yourself. Or throw down your bridging ladders. Or stack rocks. Or back down and go a different way. No trail's thwarted me for lack of traction when I also have a number of workarounds EXCEPT for the ones where I wouldn't have the ground clearance and I choose to back down. AFAICS, a front locker would only tempt me to go deeper into trails where the successful outcome would be seriously in doubt.

[fishsticks]

So we are clear on why I want a front locker.

I fully intend to drag my IFS ass through this obstacle and others like it. You may need to FF a bit since this is unedited.




(He didn't make it.)

If you're thinking about a front locker... make sure you know why you want one.

[DmccartneyFF2TB]

Agreed I want one bad juat gotta poney up the moonay.

[Jon A]

...throw out a strap and get a tug from somebody who's already up the obstacle. Or winch yourself. Or throw down your bridging ladders. Or stack rocks. Or back down and go a different way. No trail's thwarted me for lack of traction when I also have a number of workarounds EXCEPT for the ones where I wouldn't have the ground clearance and I choose to back down.

Well, I guess it depends on where you are and what you're doing. You could make that same argument against pretty much any modification that adds capability. Why buy good tires if you've got all that recovery equipment?

Virtually every time I've been stuck in any vehicle it has been due to a lack of traction, usually caused by large amounts of snow and/or mud in addition to the obstacles. And almost always one front is left spinning while the other is not and may have had enough traction to avoid the situation.

If you're just out having fun and can pick and choose where you go or if exercising your recovery equipment just adds to the fun, that's one thing. If your goal is to get somewhere, getting stuck along the way is usually no fun at all. If a modification significantly increases the capability of the vehicle that means you can go more places or go to the same places with a larger margin of safety against having problems.

[teebes]

...
If you're just out having fun and can pick and choose where you go or if exercising your recovery equipment just adds to the fun, that's one thing. If your goal is to get somewhere, getting stuck along the way is usually no fun at all. If a modification significantly increases the capability of the vehicle that means you can go more places or go to the same places with a larger margin of safety against having problems.

Significantly increases capability or risk of breakage (it's not IF, it's a matter of when)? Getting stuck comes with the hobby, recovery gear is really avoidable regardless.

[fishsticks]

More traction means the ability to potentially get yourself stuck worse... so plan accordingly. -- I think we all get that concept.

All mods are a risk/reward situation.

[Jon A]

Yeah, I think that's obvious common sense stuff.

One note on risk of breakage though:

It's also obvious common sense to be aware in some situations a locker in the front will allow you to put a lot more stress on certain components increasing the risk of breaking something. Some of this can be controlled by the driver though obviously not all of it.

However, it should also be pointed out that in many situations it isn't going to make a difference. Further, in some situations a locker in the front can actually reduce the chance of breaking something. Parts don't like dynamic shock loads. One tire spinning fast, being stopped as it catches traction, spinning fast again; having to hit an obstacle faster, bouncing your way over it, one front spinning and stopping as it bounces up and down is a great way to break parts as well. If that's the only way you can get over a particular obstacle with an open front, all your parts may well have been better off with a locked front that allowed you to slowly idle over it with both fronts slowly churning away eliminating the big shock loads.

Anyway, I don't think we'll get much of a picture of the total general affect of a front locker on durability in these things until a number of us have actually tried it. While a general trend of more broken parts may be to be expected, it might not be quite as severe or black and white as some may think.

[fishsticks]

Yeah, I think that's obvious common sense stuff.

One note on risk of breakage though:

It's also obvious common sense to be aware in some situations a locker in the front will allow you to put a lot more stress on certain components increasing the risk of breaking something. Some of this can be controlled by the driver though obviously not all of it.

However, it should also be pointed out that in many situations it isn't going to make a difference. Further, in some situations a locker in the front can actually reduce the chance of breaking something. Parts don't like dynamic shock loads. One tire spinning fast, being stopped as it catches traction, spinning fast again; having to hit an obstacle faster, bouncing your way over it, one front spinning and stopping as it bounces up and down is a great way to break parts as well. If that's the only way you can get over a particular obstacle with an open front, all your parts may well have been better off with a locked front that allowed you to slowly idle over it with both fronts slowly churning away eliminating the big shock loads.

Anyway, I don't think we'll get much of a picture of the total general affect of a front locker on durability in these things until a number of us have actually tried it. While a general trend of more broken parts may be to be expected, it might not be quite as severe or black and white as some may think.

My layman hypothesizing tells me that adding a front locker will strengthen the carrier assembly (no more lame spider gears, stronger cross pin). The point of concern I have is our aluminum housing, as reading the experiences of the S10 crowd seems to show that their aluminum housings don't react well to being locked. They do have a cast iron option which seems to work well for them. I've seen pictures of their aluminum housing and ours has a lot more webbing on the pinion side of things, which leads me to believe that ours may hold up to the added stress. Also, I'm banking on the fact that the limited travel of the IFS will ensure that the much stronger 8.6" axle will be doing the vast majority of propulsion at all times. Ultimately I'm hoping that the new setup will make the CV joints the first point of failure, as they are easy replacements.

That's my "when it breaks, not if" plan.

[bgwolfpack]

Power to the front wheels going to happen now that your garage is cleaned out?

[fishsticks]

Power to the front wheels going to happen now that your garage is cleaned out?

That's the aim.

[The Roadie]

Early H3's with aluminum front diff housings were breaking them like gangbusters, even without lockers. The hard-core wheeling H3 crowd all seemed to upgrade to the H3 Alpha cast iron housings as soon as they became available on the dealer parts market (as opposed to limited to new production vehicles).

[janesy86]

Just thought I'd post it here since I saw the update....

But I'd ordered a 8.6" No-slip for myself this past week, and I'll be getting it in the next couple days, but i thought anyone interested in this mod might want to know of a decent deal...

Ordered it from 4wheelparts.com for the cheapest price I found $439 and change shipped, then a $20 off google checkout discount for first time orders over $200 thru them, so I got the locker for $419 and change and a line on a 8.6" open rear with my gear ratio for $250....

So by mid March I'll have a fully lock rear.

And Fish, I'll be wanting an update on the lockrite up front once you get it installed and offroad... still a bit envious of the 4.56's.

[fishsticks]

And Fish, I'll be wanting an update on the lockrite up front once you get it installed and offroad... still a bit envious of the 4.56's.

Hopefully the stars will align and I can tear the truck apart on Saturday.

[fishsticks]

Today was disassembly day.

Since most reports I could find of front diff removal were sketchy at best, I had to come up with my own plan of attack. I was set on not dropping the oil pan. My first plan was to jack the engine up as some have talked about and try to pull the front diff out from the rear of the motor. I ended up changing plans midway through as I just couldn't get the clearance to get it out that way. When all was said and done I removed the diff from the top of the engine bay.

Here's a roughly reorganized step by step for someone who wants to do this.

1. Jack front of truck up and support by the frame with jackstands placed approximately at the seam of the fenders/doors.
2. Remove front wheels.
3. Drain front diff fluid.
4. Drain cooling system.
5. Disconnect both outer tie rods from hub assemblies.
6. Disconnect ABS and brake lines from holddowns.
7. Disconnect upper control arms from upper balljoints. Allow hub assemblies to hang on lower ball joints. Make sure you aren't stressing ABS or brake lines.
8. Pop axle tripod joints out of diff and splined disconnect. (Letting the hubs hang first puts a little outward pressure on the CVs and makes this SO EASY).
9. Remove splined disconnect.
10. Remove intermediate shaft. I bought a slide hammer for this purpose and expected a fight. I didn't need it. I screwed one of the bolts that holds the PCM into the hole in the shaft and pulled. The shaft came right out. My inner seal was worn and leaking. The new seal had a bit more grab to it, and I needed the slide hammer to get it back out.
11. Disconnect the front driveshaft from the front differential yoke. Tie up and out of the way.
12. Remove driver side strut assembly. (Makes a lot of room to work.) The second time I didn't unbolt the assembly front the LCA. I just unbolted the two top nuts and pivoted it outwards as needed.
13. Unbolt radiator shroud support brackets.
14. Remove accessory belt.
15. Loosen PCM bolts.
16. Remove alternator and engine lift bracket. Also remove bolt from wiring harness tiedown nearby.
17. Disconnect battery and remove battery and tray.
18. Loosen top nut of passenger side motor mount. Remove top nut of driver's side motor mount.
19. Place jack and block of wood under oil pan. Jack up motor until driver side mount is free.
20. Unbolt driver side motor mount bracket. These are the 3 large bolts on the outside of the frame. Remove mount and bracket.
21. Use jack to move motor up and down to get at hard to reach bolts for next steps.
22. Remove driver's side coolant hose.
23. Remove idler pulley.
24. Remove thermostat.
25. Disconnect wiring plugs (2) from AC compressor.
26. Unbolt AC compressor. Pull up to top of engine through hole you've made. Leave lines connected (they'll flex).
27. Unbolt differential from oil pan. (2 bolts in front, 1 on bottom, 1 in rear near driveshaft yoke).
28. Lightly pry differential away from oil pan.
29. Pull differential up through top of engine bay.
30. Drink a beer, you deserve it.


Aside from that, I got to look over some original parts on my truck while they are off. Everything looks/sounds/spins surprisingly well for a 100K mile truck with a history of offroading.

I got some initial measurements off the front diff and then split the case. Turns out my right side carrier bearing race had some scuffing on it. I didn't get bearings when I ordered everything but the local Oreilly's had them in stock. Other bearings looked OK.

Not much in the way of pics today. Tomorrow I'll try to take some pics of the innards when I'm assembling.

[Blackout]

Can't wait to see it. About how long did this take you today?

[fishsticks]

Can't wait to see it. About how long did this take you today?

I started at 10:30am. I had all the suspension apart and the diff unbolted by 11:45. Then I fiddled with it trying to get it out from underneath for an hour or so. Took a couple breaks, and changed plans. The diff cleared the top of the truck around 3pm.

If I had to do it again it would go a lot faster knowing what I know now.

[Blackout]

All in all that doesn't seem like too bad of a time frame.

[dirty anton]

[Trail X]

Wow, you're fast! Took me a total of 6 hours to rebuild my front disconnect (again). The front diff sounds like a much more difficult task!