Driver Side CV Shaft Play

[JHogg419]

Sorry if I have missed something on this site, but on the way home from work, I noticed a noise coming from my front driver side wheel. Call it a grinding hum. Not to loud. I can't hear it with my music on but it still noticeable if you are looking for it. When I got home, I took off my wheel and began looking around. I noticed my brakes where pretty worn down so I assumed that was the problem. I decided to check other things while I was there with the wheel off. The cv shaft seemed to have a lot of play at the diff(about 3/8 inch in all directions. I only have a 3 inch lift and running 265/70r17. Is it possible for the Cv shaft to pop off the differential but not all the way out? My biggest problem is that I am on call and have to be at the hospital in 30 minutes. My biggest fear is the differential is braking. What do I need to be looking at. I bought this vehicle not very long ago. I have gone fishing a few weeks ago where I probably flexed pretty good but not enough to pop a cv shaft out. Nothing extreme for sure. I have never owned a 4wd before and my knowledge is very limited. I've been trying to read on here to learn more. The repair manuals is showing nothing at all. I am not sure what bearings or seals are inside.

Additional note: I just went out there and checked. The cv shaft does not move in or out just up and down and front and back. I have a bad feeling about this....

[v7guy]

viewtopic.php?f=26&t=2480&hilit=normal+play

There's a video in there of normal play.


If it doesn't go in and out it's still engaged in the diff, it's pretty common for the bearings and seal for the CV to go and cause a fair bit of play. It's relatively simple and cheap to replace. There's a fair number of threads here about it.

[JHogg419]

Yeah. I saw that post. I can't seem to get the video to work. I've tried my phone and laptop. I think tomorrow, I am going to change the fluid in the front diff and see what it looks like. I presume that if it was messed up that there would be metal in it. Is that safe to assume? Perhaps its normal and I just didn't ever notice. The cv joint itself feels solid and boots look good. I know once the noise got a bit louder while driving home and I tapped the brakes and it quit. Maybe that is all I need.

[v7guy]

The bearing that the CV shaft rides on is on the outside of the diff housing just behind the rubber seal, the odds are pretty small that there's anything messed up in the differential itself.

You should definitely check the CV/diff seal and make sure it's not leaking.

[KE7WOX]

I think that there is a thread somewhere that discusses the possibility of a diff seal leak to cause bearing failure by having the gear oil slowly remove the grease from the bearing.

As v7guy said, check for leaks and fluid level (remove the filler plug, takes a 19mm socket -I advise to do this with a cold vehicle, the plug does get quite hot). A leaky seal will be VERY noticeable, usually a clean line that goes straight down from the seal, and the fluid gets on the CV shaft which then flings it everywhere, really hard to miss.

[JHogg419]

A little update/bad news. So i changed my hub and brakes and when i went to check my front diff fluid it was dry. I went to fill it up to check it full because once I heard the grinding noise, I drove it home and parked it. Only about 20 miles. The fluid started immediately coming out from that cv shaft seal. The noise is there when in 2wd but gets loud if I try 4hi. What are the odds it could be just those cv shaft bearing and seal on the diff? I am not sure where to go from here. My funds are limited. I want to replace those seals and see what happens but I already just spent 300 dollars on a hub and brakes. I don't want to nickel and dime it and have to rebuild it any ways. I would have to take out a loan to do it. I can remove the diff and all but I have never rebuilt one before.

So that's the question. Where do I need to go from here?

[Trail X]

If it was dry and you've been driving it dry, you're very lucky it didn't seize up on you. I know from experience.

More than likely, you have more than just an outer bearing that's toast. The diff needs to be removed and inspected. At best, you need to replace an outer seal and a bearing, at worst, you need to replace all internals or get a junkyard diff. Junkyard diffs cost around $300 in my area.

If you wish to prolong your time span before having to pull the diff, then pull the CV shafts on both sides, and if you can, remove the front driveshaft. You'll just become a 2WD truck until you can fix it.

This is why it is very important to constantly monitor your parking spot, and to immediately identify any fluids that appear.

[Trail X]

I think that there is a thread somewhere that discusses the possibility of a diff seal leak to cause bearing failure by having the gear oil slowly remove the grease from the bearing.

I don't think there's any merit to that concern. The bearings aren't greased when they arrive, they only have light machine oil on them, the bearings rely on the gear oil for lubrication. Even if they were greased, grease is only oil suspended in a soap, so replacing oil in a soap with pure oil shouldn't be a concern.

[KE7WOX]

A little update/bad news. So i changed my hub and brakes and when i went to check my front diff fluid it was dry. I went to fill it up to check it full because once I heard the grinding noise, I drove it home and parked it. Only about 20 miles. The fluid started immediately coming out from that cv shaft seal. The noise is there when in 2wd but gets loud if I try 4hi. What are the odds it could be just those cv shaft bearing and seal on the diff? I am not sure where to go from here. My funds are limited. I want to replace those seals and see what happens but I already just spent 300 dollars on a hub and brakes. I don't want to nickel and dime it and have to rebuild it any ways. I would have to take out a loan to do it. I can remove the diff and all but I have never rebuilt one before.

So that's the question. Where do I need to go from here?

Was it completely dry? / How much oil did you put in? I've dealt with seal leaks before (twice) and it was always a fairly slow leak. If the seal is completely damaged and just dumping fluid, then the fluid has to be somewhere, either your parking spot or the undercarriage, unless it blew out on the highway and dumped it all (again, there should be some stuck to the undercarriage, CV shaft, the diff itself, etc.

The seal is $20 tops from a dealer, DO NOT buy the aftermarket one because it's known to not last long. Not sure about the bearing, but replacing the seal takes a few hours and the unusual tools can be rented from Autozone (pickle fork, seal driver kit).

[KE7WOX]

I think that there is a thread somewhere that discusses the possibility of a diff seal leak to cause bearing failure by having the gear oil slowly remove the grease from the bearing.

I don't think there's any merit to that concern. The bearings aren't greased when they arrive, they only have light machine oil on them, the bearings rely on the gear oil for lubrication. Even if they were greased, grease is only oil suspended in a soap, so replacing oil in a soap with pure oil shouldn't be a concern.

Oh ok. I just recall reading about that concern a while back, the only way I saw this being a problem is if the rollers on top can't get enough oil and depend on grease for it, but if the bearings aren't greased when they arrive then nevermind. I have not had to replace mine so I haven't seen that bearing fresh out of the package.

[JHogg419]

Was it completely dry? / How much oil did you put in? I've dealt with seal leaks before (twice) and it was always a fairly slow leak. If the seal is completely damaged and just dumping fluid, then the fluid has to be somewhere, either your parking spot or the undercarriage, unless it blew out on the highway and dumped it all (again, there should be some stuck to the undercarriage, CV shaft, the diff itself, etc.

The seal is $20 tops from a dealer, DO NOT buy the aftermarket one because it's known to not last long. Not sure about the bearing, but replacing the seal takes a few hours and the unusual tools can be rented from Autozone (pickle fork, seal driver kit).

So today I changed the cv shafts and the driver side cv shaft bearing and seal. What a job.... I drained all the fluid and I put in two days ago. Well what was left of it. There were absolutely no metal shavings or metallic color to the fluid. Gear teeth looked perfect from what I could see.When I went for the test drive, it drove perfect in 2wd. When I got home, I put it in 4Hi. I drove 5 feet and heard a little grinding noise. I stopped immediately. I crawled underneath to see a small bit of fluid leaking from my pinion yoke. It didn't move around much at all but I could feel some noise to the bearings when I turned it by hand. My next question is Can I change the outer pinion bearing and seal with the diff still installed? I have worked around cars for most of the 30 years I have been on this earth. I have never done transmission or diff work. Now seems like a good time to start. I am really trying to get out of taking everything fully off and rebuilding it at this time.

PS. Hayes manuals suck when it comes to this. There is nothing on the front diff. My local dealership folks are acting like morons and can't even order the right parts when I give them the part numbers.

I am sorry I am such a newb to this all. I figure I will probably get trashed talk or something from a post that I have missed. I apologize now for any mistakes seen above. Be easy.

[DirtyBacon04]

Replace outer seal, yes. bearing, no

[JHogg419]

In the diagram, Number 22 is what I am talking about. It looks like it just slides in. Is it something that is pressed on or am I missing something? I apologize for my ignorance. Not sure why I couldn't take that out.

[v7guy]

It's pressed on to the pinion and rides on a replaceable race inside the case. To get it off you have to press the pinion out of the case, it's fun like that.
To top it all off there's two bearings, so even if you could pull that one out it's very likely the other one is fubar'd too... and who knows what the differential bearings look like. There's no quick fix for this one.

fixed the link to the tripot play video, not that it's that great anyways, I think I might have been having a seizure for the first few seconds or something.

[JHogg419]

Oh okay. Then its time for some work.the local yard has three front diffs for 300 a piece. The lowest mileage is 100000. What do i need to do at the yard to check these before i purchase one. For the time being i will just remove my cv shafts and front driveshaft. I am hoping to replace the seals on the outside of the used diff and rear grease and oil it all up. I can split the housing without having to reset it all correct? I am pretty good at fixing stuff as long as I take it apart. This is all a new challenge for me. I should would like to regear but I don't see the money for all that coming available any time soon. I'm not a serious offroader. Just camping and fishing mostly. I can do what I need on 32.5 and 3.42 but i thought i might could get some better mpg. Being a 2004 makes it harder to tune I believe and I do not want a lot of lights on my dash to be lit up.

[v7guy]

If you're "just" replacing the diff then you remove the old diff and pop in the new one. I'd start soaking down the diff where it's pressed into the oil pan now, even then it's likely going to fight you a lot.

On the salvage yard diffs I'd ensure the seal is still intact on the drivers side and spin the pinion to make sure there's no gritty feeling. As long as it hasn't been ran out of oil it'll probably be fine. These little front diffs seem to be pretty durable.

You can split the housing without setting up anything, just make sure everything goes back to where it came from. To be honest there's not much to look at in there, just the carrier bearings and their races. Anything beyond that requires setting up the gears again, which is doable, but it's an exercise in patience.