Why should I not buy KCs?

[bgwolfpack]

Reading the posts here and there. ( I've been trained properly) I've seen several times where the KC brand of lights have had disparaging comments made about them. "KC hilights are soo terrible."

Without starting a thread that may lead to nowhere, I will ask this question here.

If the powers that be think this is a worthy subject for a thread then so be it.

Why should I not buy KCs?

[irishboy02]

Who said that theyre terrible? (i dont feel like searching)

KC are a GREAT set of lights, my personal fav, i just havnt gotten around to purchasing a set personally. My uncle still has his first set of daylighters that he purchased 24 years ago for his 86 bronco which he bought new. My mother also had a set on her CJ. Foosh is currently running them on his pushbar and me and Gordinho ran into a kid with a YJ who had a set of daylighters that were handed down to him from his father and were still stupid bright.

They have a great light pattern, are extremely durable, have an amazing hassel free 23 year warranty.
Not to mention the fact that as soon as someone mentions KC lights you know exactly what theyre talkin about.

Reputable, strong, reliable product. KC FTW

[Gordinho80]

I'm partial to Hella myself. KCs are bright lights. Most people that I've seen with them, love them. Most that I've seen with other lights, hate KCs.

It all depends on the pattern you want and the pattern they put out. I've only seen KCs turned on when not really in use, just showing the brightness. So I couldn't really review the output properly. I've seen JD's Hella 4000 fogs in pitch black... very nice WIDE pattern. Lots of light where it is needed. I also have first hand experience with my Hella 500FFs. They are a driving pattern, so the output is not very wide, but they are definitely nice long range lights....

[bgwolfpack]

I ran KC Daylighters on my toy and loved them too. That's why I really needed to ask this question before I spend $ on a set again.

Many members have placed lights on their trucks but the multitude amount has been Hellas. Hardly any PIAA and until now have not known anyone to run KCs. It's been a long time since I bought off road lights and I don't want to be a fool with my money.

The quote comes from a certain illustrious member. Not once but on three separate occasions have I noted a disdain from him on KCs. I trust that he will comment on this issue.

The build threads list or show many of the members choices on lights. I know for instance Fishsticks (Donny) bought Hellas from a member for his own truck and loves them. I don't have anything against Hellas. I just have a history with KCs and don't understand the criticism.

Thank you irishboy02 for the posting. By the way, will you be selling any parts now that you will becoming shorter?
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Gordinho80, That's my quandary. The KCs I had were tremendously bright and long tight pattern for miles. Just not sure which is best and why. I realize they were that way for a reason. I just don't see why people hate them soo.

[Trail X]

Haha.... oh, KCs.

To me, KC is the epitome of a company that creates a product for form... not function. Chrome bling... free form reflector... smilie face covers... and a beam that is made for an aircraft. KCs are for people that want a light that looks retro... that's about it.

They were created back in the hay-day of off-roading. You'll see them on a ton of jeeps back then... but they weren't used. They were there because that was 'the thing'. KCs have a great following by people that just want some lights on their roof. Yes they're almost an icon... but it's just because they were popular a long time ago and had a market share back then.

There have been so many improvements to lights since the classic KCs came along. Plastic housings reduce weight (which reduces vibrations), faceted computer generated reflectors spread the beam out into useful patterns, glass ribbing spreads the light horizontally and keeps glare down...

Then there's the beam pattern. Long and narrow beams are not desirable for off road... unless you're going to be predominately traveling at high speeds when you need the extra lighting... in which case you do want a long and narrow beam. But even then... you want a driving light, not a pencil beam.

A good off road beam is a wide low pattern. I recommend a fog or "cornering" beam for your main driving lights. I'm very happy with my Hella Micro DE and my Hella 4000 Cornering lights. The Hella 550s are ok, but even they don't throw the light down exactly where I want it... I'll try to get a comparison shot for you in the pitch dark during TECORE.

Plus, the KCs are just soooo retro!

Anyways, here's a 3rd party review of lights. The iconic KC day-lighters received a poor rating: http://jd.offroadtb.com/light_comparison.pdf Note, this was an Australian review, so most of the lights cannot be found in the US.

If you want more feedback... just look at what brands were used by some of the past iconic expedition events... like the Camel Trophy. You'll basically only see wide angle Hella products on those vehicles. Hella = expedition, KC = mall. Thats just the way I see it. But don't just listen to me... find your own reasons.

[bgwolfpack]

Thanks for the thoughts James.

Now all I feel is retro, in my non-mall status.

As always though your points are valid. Opinions I pay attention to.

Guess that's it. KCs suck unless you just want to look cool. (Been a long time since I looked cool)


Probably end up going with something like the Hella Micro's or something like the Nane 7100. Is there a reason why most are mounted on the roof? Doesn't a roof mounted light impair visibility of the surroundings?

[Trail X]

There are pros and cons to roof mounting a light.

Pros:
-throws more light to the sides due to being mounted further back
-above your view, doesn't cast strange shadows on the surface of the road
-longer effective distance (a better angle of incidence on the road)
-Can be done to a TB without a custom bumper or grille guard

Cons:
-glare on hood (luckily not so bad if you mount the lights where most of us have them, the roof blocks the glare)
-wind resistance
-running power to them is just a little tricky

[SteveTB03]

I have 4 kc daylights on my roof and I love them they do what I need them to do off-road, yes they don't output a wide light but that's why I position them correct so they will shine where I need them to.

IMO they work good but they will be changed one day I feel the need to do so.

[bartonmd]

There are pros and cons to roof mounting a light.

Pros:
-throws more light to the sides due to being mounted further back
-above your view, doesn't cast strange shadows on the surface of the road
-longer effective distance (a better angle of incidence on the road)
-Can be done to a TB without a custom bumper or grille guard

Cons:
-glare on hood (luckily not so bad if you mount the lights where most of us have them, the roof blocks the glare)
-wind resistance
-running power to them is just a little tricky

I'll add a con to that list...

- Are on top of the vehicle, and are more likely to get knocked off by tree branches

Talking to several serious off road / krawling people that I know, they all said not to put lights on top of the vehicle... They've all had them knocked off before, so they either mount them on the mirror brackets on Jeeps, or on the bumper... This is obviously not as much of an issue (tree branches) out west, but here, it's an issue...

Mike

[The Roadie]

East Coast guys need to discover limb risers. And mount the lights beneath their protection.

Hey - we got mountains with trees, too. Although out here, they grow tall enough to have tree lines above which most trees don't grow. Like this:

[Trail X]

Our lights are positioned so far back on the roof that I don't think limb risers would do much... and it would make for a tricky mounting situation. You'd have to have some sort of riser at the top of the windshield.

[Gordinho80]

Limb risers are much easier for those with headlight loops on their brush guards. As far as mounting to the roof, I'd think some sort of bracket bolted to the A pillar inside the door channel would be best. But like JD said, those with roof lights have them mounted so far back that it would be difficult to run risers, unless you did a 2 stage setup... I'm going to Photoshop something up...

[irishboy02]

James, what expierence do you have with KCs? From that link that you posted, you basically just copy and pasted the whole thing to the equivalent of plagerizing if you were in college.

KCs do not just come in one beam pattern like you are implying. They are offered in long range, pencil, driving, flood, spot and fog as well. You compared a KC longrange to a Hella fog. Yea, oranges and tennis balls are alike but youd much rather eat an orange. Theyre both lights but they are completely different setups so there is clearly no grounds for comparison.

Yes, i agree our trucks are built and can handle light trails. Yes, our trucks and setups benefit more from a fog pattern.

So what if they get smacked by branches, thats why they have rock shields and lenses over the bulbs. Theyre lights built for offroading, a few branches wont hurt.

[OregTrailBlazin]

I've had a set of lights on my mirror brackets on my samurai (poor man's jeep) and HATED them!! I could not use them, they produced SO much glare it was literally impossible to use at night, And tree branch's ended up ripping one off by the end of the trip.. I highly suggest nobody does a crazy mod to mount them there!!!

And NO tree branches on the west coast. Don't group us all together with my southern brethren down there.. I cannot look in any direction without seeing mountains after mountains, and tree galore!! Infact we have tree's you can drive through!!

[Trail X]

James, what expierence do you have with KCs? From that link that you posted, you basically just copy and pasted the whole thing to the equivalent of plagerizing if you were in college.

KCs do not just come in one beam pattern like you are implying. They are offered in long range, pencil, driving, flood, spot and fog as well. You compared a KC longrange to a Hella fog. Yea, oranges and tennis balls are alike but youd much rather eat an orange. Theyre both lights but they are completely different setups so there is clearly no grounds for comparison.

Plagiarizing? Not sure where you got that from. Retro is a common word that comes up when talking about Day-lighters. Those words were mine, I provided the light comparison article so you know I'm not full of hot air.

Thanks for filling me in about the other beam patterns of the KC lights - I haven't seen the others in use. I have seen a KC pencil though... blinds you in one spot, otherwise harmless. My understanding is that the "Daylighter" was originally just a pencil beam and I didn't realize there were other options, I see now that there are. Good to see them adapting to the market.

Not to add gasoline to the fire, but I've seen some KCs in person... lots of rust due to the steel housing... is that common?

Another very interesting light that I see a lot of expeditioners using is the Lightforce lights. I was tempted to buy them when I got the 4000s, but I liked the beam pattern on the 4000s more.

I think the biggest takeaway from any light discussion is to buy based on beam pattern and durability... (below are light outputs from Hella Rallye 4000 beam options, source hella.com)

Wide (cornering or fog) is better for slow going and off road stuff

Fog:


Cornering:


Narrower (driving or euro beam) is ok for high speeds

Euro/driving:


Pencils are generally useless unless you're spotlighting a nearby mountain or landing on a runway.

Pencil:


Of course, we're all going to defend our own choices though... kinda like a mother protecting her young.

[bartonmd]

And NO tree branches on the west coast. Don't group us all together with my southern brethren down there.. I cannot look in any direction without seeing mountains after mountains, and tree galore!! Infact we have tree's you can drive through!!
]

Yeah, I guess I should have said "the southwest coast"

mike

[The Roadie]

[DJones]

Am I the only one who is planning on assembling custom lights? I could choose the bulb (quartz = longer life) with the specific horizontal or vertical beam spreads, housing whether it's stainless steel (my choice!) or rubber, and brightness, and size. I could use better information on the Hellas and KCs to have something to compare them to. I was planning on aircraft landing lights (for one pair), but I am unsure about how often I could actually use them as they would be useless off-road and the highway and backroads almost always has someone else on them . I haven't started collecting parts yet, so I can change my mind if needed. The other thing is that I have never been off-road at night yet, so I do not know exactly what I need.

[Trail X]

Curious... where are you finding these "assemble yourself" lights?...

How are you planning to match housings with bulbs and lenses?

[DJones]

Curious... where are you finding these "assemble yourself" lights?...

How are you planning to match housings with bulbs and lenses?

I will get Grote chrome (I think they have them) housings of the correct size, such as PAR36 or PAR46, depending upon the bulb; and the bulb and lense is one self contained unit (sealed beam), except if I get the quartz lamp, in which case a tiny glass bulb is inside of the larger parabolic reflector with lense. Here is what I am talking about and I would like to hear opinions:

PAR36 Lamps.
PAR46 Lamps.
Housing.
I'll need to search a little deeper to find exactly what I want.