Wide or Narrow tire?

[TSAdventurez]

I found this article interesting and was wondering what yall think.

http://www.expeditionswest.com/research ... _rev1.html

So wide tire or narrow tire, which do you prefer?

[navigator]

my offroading is usually sand or mud so I vote wide.
A tall tire with decent side nubs though can also give pretty good traction in sand as well if you air down.

[NC_IslandRunner]

my offroading is usually sand or mud so I vote wide.
A tall tire with decent side nubs though can also give pretty good traction in sand as well if you air down.

Same here, we sand people need wide tires!

[navigator]

reading the article though we might not!

[fishsticks]

Wide tires.

More surface area (traction)
More floatation
Keeps the fenders off of stuff
Less likely to flop

[djthumper]

That article was pretty interesting. I could see where a narrow tire could be handy in sand, it also says using an AT tire in sand as well. I only have 265 tires now and thought about going to 255 but there isn't much made for the 16" wheel

[Trail X]

I think I've posted that thread here somewhere... maybe the OS... but always good to be brought up again. It's a good read.

Every time this comes up though... the answer is the same. What's your mission?

I like my 255s... and will prob stay there for a while. I guess that's narrow comparatively.

[navigator]

Battlemode that has 255/85/16's. I expect if he airs down some that he is as wide or wider than a 265/75/16 and still has more height.

The comment about the length of the tread being greater is something I failed to consider in the past, especially in the sand.

[djthumper]

Only 2 tires are made in 255/85/16 and comes up at a 33" tire. I don't know if I would want to make a trip someplace with that odd of a size. I was looking around the 32" tires.

[navigator]

that is one of the main reasons I am leaning toward a 265/75/16, they are pretty common if you get in a bind.

[bartonmd]

Wide tires.

More surface area (traction)
More floatation
Keeps the fenders off of stuff
Less likely to flop

eh... Not really... If you are spinning them in the mud or something, yeah, they're more likely to find something to grab onto, as they're grabbing at more area; but as far as on pavement, rocks, gravel, snow, etc., you do have more area, but you've got less ground pressure, so the traction is actually the same, or in the case of snow, worse...

Mike

[fishsticks]

Wide tires.

More surface area (traction)
More floatation
Keeps the fenders off of stuff
Less likely to flop

eh... Not really... If you are spinning them in the mud or something, yeah, they're more likely to find something to grab onto, as they're grabbing at more area; but as far as on pavement, rocks, gravel, snow, etc., you do have more area, but you've got less ground pressure, so the traction is actually the same, or in the case of snow, worse...

Mike

Ground pressure is great if you want to dig a hole or wear tires down. There's still a shearing force at work and the smaller amount of rubber contact can't handle it.

Pavement: You should go explain your theory to all the drag racers who run 14+ inch wide tires.

Rocks: See Pavement. Adjust enthusiast type as necessary.

Gravel: Lol.

Snow: Go run some pizza cutters at street PSI on packed snow. Report back.













I love you man. Wanna borrow my Swedish penis pump?

[bartonmd]

eh... Not really... If you are spinning them in the mud or something, yeah, they're more likely to find something to grab onto, as they're grabbing at more area; but as far as on pavement, rocks, gravel, snow, etc., you do have more area, but you've got less ground pressure, so the traction is actually the same, or in the case of snow, worse...

Mike

Ground pressure is great if you want to dig a hole or wear tires down. There's still a shearing force at work and the smaller amount of rubber contact can't handle it.

Pavement: You should go explain your theory to all the drag racers who run 14+ inch wide tires.
They run wide tires for head dissipation. More surface area dissipates heat faster. The more power you put down, the more heat you make by slipping (slipping = friction. Without slip, there is no friction), and if you don't have a tire wide enough to get rid of that heat, it gets to the surface rubber melting point, and you spin tires. Now, non-DOT drag tires are a little different, because they literally get "sticky" when they get hot, and in combination with the traction compound on the track, they actually do have more traction. This is not the case with a street tire on the street, though.

Rocks: See Pavement. Adjust enthusiast type as necessary.

Gravel: Lol.

Snow: Go run some pizza cutters at street PSI on packed snow. Report back.
Actually, you are supposed to run more narrow snow tires than stock, because they get better traction with the higher ground pressure. Actually the rally cars run a 4.5" wide snow tire with ag-tire type lugs, to get extra high ground pressure; and they have more traction than they do on gravel. Literally, "dry pavement" levels of traction.


I love you man. Wanna borrow my Swedish penis pump?
Nah, I already have mine. I gave you the extra-extra small one, because I graduated to the extra small one...

See red above.

Wide tires are good for mud, and they're good for the mechanical reasons you mentioned. Keeping you away from stuff, wider stance, etc. They do not, however, have more traction on rocks, pavement, gravel, or snow.

Mike

[Trail X]

Clarification needs to be made on depth of snow.

Packed thin snow:


Unpacked deep snow:


Mike's right, traction (strictly being available friction between the tire and ground) is wholly independent of tire size or contact patch. But that changes when you start bringing the shear strength of the materials (rubber, sand, dirt, mud) into play.

[bartonmd]

Correct. They only run those tires up to around 4" of snow depth (packed or unpacked)... When you start talking about "bottomless" or at least very deep snow, you want as much contact patch as possible, just to not sink... Then, you're trading traction for floatation. My grandpa's 3-wheeler that runs 2PSI in the 16" wide tires is absolutely worthless in the snow, because it has such low ground pressure and can't dig down to anything, or compress the snow enough to give it any shear strength... The 4-wheeler, with its narrower tires, is actually pretty good in the snow, though... However, if there's more than about 12-14" of snow, the 3-wheeler's low traction is better to deal with floating on top of it, than the 4-wheeler's good traction, dragging the belly...

I'll take wider tires in sand and mud, though... At least given a specific size... It's a toss-up between a taller, narrower tire, or a shorter, wider tire...

Mike

[dvanbramer88]

Wide tires.

More surface area (traction)
More floatation
Keeps the fenders off of stuff
Less likely to flop

eh... Not really... If you are spinning them in the mud or something, yeah, they're more likely to find something to grab onto, as they're grabbing at more area; but as far as on pavement, rocks, gravel, snow, etc., you do have more area, but you've got less ground pressure, so the traction is actually the same, or in the case of snow, worse...

Mike

you mean mud like this? i'd have to imagine that wide would be better. i couldn't find the picture's i remember seeing of the time James ran that mountain with the jeep, the pics used to appear on the home page slide show where the mud was so slick and the ruts so deep they ended up winching each other along. Again i would imagine wider being better.

[Trail X]

You mean this?

[fishsticks]

Clarification needs to be made on depth of snow.

Packed thin snow:


Unpacked deep snow:


Mike's right, traction (strictly being available friction between the tire and ground) is wholly independent of tire size or contact patch. But that changes when you start bringing the shear strength of the materials (rubber, sand, dirt, mud) into play.

Note the differing weight of those vehicles. Put the truck on that road with those skinnies an he'd be all over the place. Put the Subie on the snow with balloon tires and he'd get going... after a lot of wheelspin... maybe.

Put the truck with its current tires on the road and I suspect he'd do just fine. The Subie on skinnies might be able to get on top of the snow if placed in the bottom pic, because he is much lighter.

Using examples with much lighter vehicles is not a good fit IMO (Yes, I know I did it too). We are talking about our 5000 lb trucks here correct? If we are, then I believe it's safe to say that a skinny tire is going to make you dig. Friction != usable traction in my layman's lexicon.

[bartonmd]

Clarification needs to be made on depth of snow.

Packed thin snow:


Unpacked deep snow:


Mike's right, traction (strictly being available friction between the tire and ground) is wholly independent of tire size or contact patch. But that changes when you start bringing the shear strength of the materials (rubber, sand, dirt, mud) into play.

Note the differing weight of those vehicles. Put the truck on that road with those skinnies an he'd be all over the place. Put the Subie on the snow with balloon tires and he'd get going... after a lot of wheelspin... maybe.

Put the truck with its current tires on the road and I suspect he'd do just fine. The Subie on skinnies might be able to get on top of the snow if placed in the bottom pic, because he is much lighter.

Using examples with much lighter vehicles is not a good fit IMO (Yes, I know I did it too). We are talking about our 5000 lb trucks here correct? If we are, then I believe it's safe to say that a skinny tire is going to make you dig. Friction != usable traction in my layman's lexicon.

Nope... Truck on skinnies would stop/go/corner on the snowy road better than it would with the balloons... Actually, my Cummins did better in the snow when it had 2/3 used up Transforce HT highway tires in 235/85-16 than it does with the newish BFG AT pattern 285/75-16's... It's not much worse, but it is, and the BFG AT pattern at full tread is MUCH better in the snow than 2/3 used up highway tread... The 265/75-16 Destination M/T were MUCH worse than both, before I cut and siped them, then they became sort of OK... I only went with the wider tires so I wouldn't sink and tear up the (invariably soft) ground with a load of wood in the truck; and I deal with them being not as good in the snow, and floating a lot more over the gravel, because of it.

The subie with skinnies has about 2x the ground pressure as the SUV with stock tires, and about 4x the ground pressure as the SUV with balloons... Subie with balloons would be as worthless on snow as the 3-wheeler is, though it doesn't sink in the really deep stuff...

Mike

[bartonmd]

You mean this?

Ugh, nothing works in that crap!

That particular situation, though, I'd rather have a taller, narrower tire, than a shorter, wider tire. I only say that because there's an obvious bottom to it, and sinking/floatation isn't of primary concern.

Mike