Hub Winch

[BWGuy]

I've been thinking about adding some winch power to my rig, but I don't want to spend a lot of money, and I like to do stuff myself.

So, apparently, there is a thing called a hub winch that folks over in Australia and South Africa use, but I don't see too much about them in the U.S. forums.

I'm in the process of fabbing one and can't wait to try it out. It will be a CNC plasma cut 1/4 plate base that will attach to 3 of the wheel studs. I'm planning to weld a length of 2 inch square tubing to this to wind up some tow strap... eventually some 4 inch 20k pound stuff from US Cargo Control.

Just putting it out there for comments. Anybody got any experience, tips, etc.?

[bartonmd]

In anything but a completely straight pull (almost never), the strap edge will get cut on the outer ring. So would synthetic winch rope. I think winch cable is about the only way to do that with any regularity or reliability.

Mike

[The Roadie]

Yah, interesting, but only useful in very limited circumstances. When ya need a winch, ya need a winch. And clevises. And a pulley. And a Pull-pal. And so forth.

And this would suck at a self-extraction from mud.

[DirtyBacon04]

better get lockers too...

[TSAdventurez]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=135zkGk2fak

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JY4cKc4FKSM

here are some good examples.

I can see this working in a pinch or on a very light weight rig such as the one in the video. But for the time and money you'll spend on the nicer set up in my second video you might as well go by a winch. But if you can make it work well for cheap then more power to you. Good Luck!

[BWGuy]

TrailShaman gets it.

So far, I've got about $0.00 invested in this, as the hardware is literally scrap pieces of steel from around the garage and the dude with the plasma cutter is paying back the favor I did him when his 2500HD got stuck in the mud behind his shop.

I do intend for this to be a tiny stepping stone of capability... Not a quantum leap to glorious unstuckability. And if [when] it doesn't work as well as I need or want it to, I'll either modify/improve it until it does or scrap it and consider an alternative.

I do have the Powertrax No Slip locker on the back already, so I got that goin for me.

Anyway, I'm very dubious of the capability of any bargain electric winch setup. Without lots of battery and a good quality motor, I don't think you've got much. A good number of the folks at the local lake have cheapo winches that either don't work at all (i.e., busted) or don't develop near the rated pull force for one reason or another. From what I've seen, I'd have to spend upwards of $600 to get a proper electric setup (good winch, mount, extra battery, etc.). And then it might only get used a couple times a year.

Most importantly though, I'd miss out on the opportunity to screw things up myself.

Hopefully, I can make a video that demonstrates the setup in action sometime. Probably won't be lifting my truck into the trees like those ATVs, but I might pull a buddy's truck out or something.

[TBYODA]

Damn for price of different pieces I could get top of line winch set and be done.

http://www.bushwinch.com.au/products.html

[The Roadie]

If you're alone, a working winch can save you a thousand dollar commercial extraction each time you use it. A poor solution that breaks will leave you to hike out, leaving the truck to be vandalized or destroyed. It's insurance in my mind. With a huge value if you go out alone in far remote areas. In cell phone range an well traveled trails, then it would have less value.

[Trail X]

I think its a cool idea. Its old school, but cool. I think an issue comes however, where you no longer are slipping, but might slip again soon. You can't snug up the winch line while you drive forward. As you drive forward the winch line will always grow more slack until you slip again.

[fishsticks]

All I can see is a heavy TB and a single shear "drum".

[BWGuy]

Here's a video I made today of me trying out the hub winch (a work in progress).

Overall, I would say it worked as expected.

To eliminate traction, I jacked up the rear diff with a floor jack that was sitting on a sheet of steel so it could slide backwards with the vehicle. By the way, that's what's making the grinding noises you hear in the video.

On the very first attempt, the rear of the truck slipped sideways rather quickly and the strap started to roll off the end of the spool. To fix this, I made a "guide" for the winch strap by using a small ratchet strap between it and the trailer hitch. This was a crude but very effective means of keeping the vehicle lined up with the winch strap so that it spooled neatly.

Some work stuff is going to keep me from developing this any further for a few weeks, but my restless brain will be OK knowing that this project is working out so far.

[The Roadie]

Glad it worked for you. I just can't get this image out of my head.

[BWGuy]

Holy cow! If I get mine chromed, I'm right there!

[TBYODA]

Are going to make a version for the front to have guide like on the video trailshaman posted? I think it be a good combo.

[KE7WOX]

Here are my thoughts.

Obviously it works. Although I'd probably have use this as a backup, or maybe as a primary if the conditions are right. Installing these is near impossible in heavy mud, which severely restricts the usage of these devices outside of the southwest. That said, making a device like this, assuming that you have access to fab equipment would probably be less than $150 including material s/h, and a good winch will be far more expensive. Whether or not you prefer to have the "insurance" of a full winch is up to you, and if you just casually offroad then a device like this could be the best solution.

I'd be concerned about scenarios in which the direction of the tugging could cause damage to the lugnuts. I suspect that there are other things that could break before, but it doesn't take much to shear or overstretch a lugnut.

As far as these devices not being widely known in the US:
(Purely guesstimation/speculation, however, I have done a few hours of wheeling in remote areas of Panama -as a passenger)

In Australia and a large chunk of the developing world, the offroading platforms of choice are few: Toyota Hilux, Land Cruiser, Nissan Navara/Frontier, Nissan Patrol, and in less quantities, the Mitsubishi Montero and L200. And when it comes to wheels, it's usually stock steel wheels, nothing too elaborate. When you have a fully, or nearly flat, face for the attachment plate to rest on, and very few bolt patterns, it's pretty easy to make a one fits all solution, or, one that accomodates multiple setups.

It's also worth keeping in mind that this device could simply be a backup. In the US it's pretty easy to get help when something goes bad, but in remote places help could be days away, and if you're stuck and your winch dies, you're in trouble (that said, wheeling alone in some of those places is a terrible idea to begin with). When you have government agencies, NGOs of all sorts and private companies trying to get all over the place, there can be a big market for offroad recovery devices; and given how remote and inhospitable some of the work areas are, you don't skimp on recovery devices, and you also come up with the simplest solutions with the least potential for breaking (snow chains used as mud chains comes to my mind).

In the US almost every platform is turned into an offroad vehicle that can have a large following, so these devices would be nearly impossible to make in a one-fits-all package. You have to accomodate for 5, 6, 8 and maybe even 10 lug wheels, and at least 2 or 3 bolt patterns for each one. But you also gotta ensure that you have good clearances around the flat face where the device mates. If you're running stock wheels on a bunch of vehicles, there's no surface for this to be properly mounted (I think that in that sense, we got very lucky). If you're running XD Monster or XD Rockstar wheels, and a bunch of other aftermarket options, this won't fit either.

Finally, I could see this device as one that helps a lot of people get a Darwin Award, or a trip in the back of a refrigerated cargo van, and considering how litigious the US is getting, might not be worth the investment.

[BWGuy]

Not too aggressive... I get what you're saying, and I've actually thought a few of the same things you mentioned (Darwin award, how difficult it would be to dig out mud and get lugnuts off and then back on while partially submerged, etc.).

As I go wheeling a bit more, though, I find myself adapting my driving style to the real-time circumstances, one of the most important of which is what recovery options I have available. E.g., if I'm in front of a guy with a Raptor and a 12000 pound winch and snatch blocks, I can [hypothetically] dive right into the deepest mud hole and not worry that the bottom might be 16 inches of wheel-sucking mush (not that I do that). But if I'm alone, I tend to throttle my sense of adventure a bit. Of late, I've gotten into the habit of checking every questionable patch of mud with a stick to see how deep a 50 psi poke will go. This has worked out pretty well as far as predicting whether or not the ground will support my rig enough to cross. After I fab a good anchor, I expect this winch to offer forgiveness pretty much for just the narrow set of circumstances I've found myself in so far. A good picture of one is shown... I was cruising the lake bottom, my son said "drive through that puddle," and even just dipping my driver side front in to "test the water," my rig slid and tipped to the point of losing adequate traction. A winch like the one demonstrated would have provided just enough pull to get my locked rear back on terra firma to where I could have driven some more. I've got about 5 or 6 similar instances (most with pictures) that I can recall, and in all cases, <=8000 lbs of "let's back up now" would probably have done the trick.

Also, in regard to what will break first, I've done the math, and the break strength of my tow strap multiplied by the leverage the load point has over the connection to the stud should be a good margin less than the yield strength of a single stud. All in, I should try to keep the pull at less than 8000 lbs in order to avoid damage to anything. High range and a forced 2nd gear (love the 4L60E) should make that easy.

[Trail X]

Just don't shock load it.